tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post27737650619130828..comments2014-10-15T10:23:22.077-05:00Comments on Write Away: The Age-Old Dilemma - To Curse or Not To CurseHadassah Feyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-70113214583679975662010-06-19T10:01:20.977-05:002010-06-19T10:01:20.977-05:00Dandellion, thank you so much for reading and comm...Dandellion, thank you so much for reading and commenting! I welcome any opinion on this dilemma! :)<br /><br />You have articulated many of my issues as a writer with leaving the curse words out. I don't want my characters to become fake. I have read books, especially of the faith genre, where the characters become ridiculous because they are so idealized and perfect. I don't want that for any book I write, whether this mainstream novel or any faith-genre book I may write in the future. <br /><br />I like the way you describe a good novel as a painting, not a description. Very true. As I'm editing the fleshing out the world, I'm actually reexamining every instance where I have written "he swore" and each moment I thought a character might have used a curse word. You're the second person to bring up the time period my novel is set in, and I'm so glad! One of the fun things about futuristic settings is being able to recreate the world according to my rules. I'm looking at what sort of curse words would be used, and whether they would be the same ones we use today in 2010.<br /><br />The point you bring up about filtering the plot as well as the words is interesting. Oddly enough, I have let these characters run rampant throughout this book and while they get themselves into some funny (not haha) situations, the cursing is the only thing they've done that's caught me off guard. I say that truthfully because I don't plan any of my plot. I just let it happen as it happens; I've never been able to use an outline. But you have a point -- how much of this story do I plan on filtering because these characters aren't following the ten commandments? Zero to none, I'll admit. <br /><br />For me, this is something of a catch-22: follow the rules of writing or follow the rules of writing as a Christian. And they may not seem that different, but I'm finding the gap between them is huge in many instances. Thank you so much for giving me another perspective; I appreciate your thoughtful input!Hadassah Feyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-79920879456675263202010-06-19T09:39:49.802-05:002010-06-19T09:39:49.802-05:00While I'm living (and speaking) on the other s...While I'm living (and speaking) on the other side of curse fence, i feel your trouble and can't resist taking a bite into the dilemma. <br /><br />First thing, when you're writing fiction, you're writing words of other people - your characters. In a way, it's not that you dropped the hard words, it's them. And if you have a character that is into swearing, you'd be untruthful to them not to give them those words. As a result, they'd become fake and hard to believe. Nobody wants those in the novel. Sailors just don't talk like vicars do and vice versa. <br /><br />Replacing the actual word with "he swore" doesn't really cut, at least not for me. Those words are being used because of their intensity. Referring to them indirectly is just describing the situation and not painting it. And good novel is a painting not a description. <br /><br />On the other side stands your argument that you shouldn't make another believer stumble. But then, that makes you significantly filter your characters and plot. Then you don't just have to filter their words, but also their actions and probably the whole plot. Which leads you to completely different genre. <br /><br />One thing that crossed my mind is that your novel is happening in 2172. Question is whether and how will people swear in 2172. Those words are getting their emotional charge in social taboos, most of them related to sex. Now, will the taboos be the same in almost a century? or there will be some other taboos? Or none at all?dandellionhttp://www.acidzen.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-74719638296203976332010-06-17T21:45:43.091-05:002010-06-17T21:45:43.091-05:00First, Ben, this Marine's daughter would like ...First, Ben, this Marine's daughter would like to thank you for your service to our country. Second, thank you so much for reading and commenting. The reply that I have is too long for a comment response -- who knew Blogger had a 4,096 character limit :) -- so I have decided to post my reply as my newest blog post. Thank you for the time and thought that you put into your response. You made me think about the positions that I have and why I have them, which I appreciate. I enjoyed answering and I appreciate the inner dialogue you started for me as I worked through the answer I wanted to give to the questions you raised. Thanks again for reading and commenting! It is always appreciated.Hadassah Feyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-28044108189017278262010-06-10T16:43:49.370-05:002010-06-10T16:43:49.370-05:00I went to war twice in Iraq. The Army has many typ...I went to war twice in Iraq. The Army has many types of personalities who are all forced to get along and accomplish some common task. There are various regulations that determine the appropriateness of different common activities and behaviors, especially in certain roles; but the biggest rule that everyone always has to follow is to get along for the mission's sake. Still, not everyone does in the end. Now, if I were to write about my experiences by doing a fictional story (representational stuff) I'd have to ask myself some questions first. To determine my theme, plot, and what kinds of characters I'd use to progress everything along, I'd have to know my own intentions. Am I going for absolute historical realism? Or am I trying to portray a certain idea? <br />You can bet there is plenty of swearing in the Army. If I'm Christian, can I not swear along with my comrades and use the common speech of the male in combat? If I do swear, does this make me less Christian? If I don't swear because I have personal values that I'd like to upkeep, does anyone care? Would my experience be any different?<br />The truth is that if I hadn't been potty mouthed in Iraq, no one would have noticed. I may have still felt left out or something, but people only care and start to notice a difference between you and them when you start advertising it, like telling them it bothers you when they swear. <br />My whole point here is that it doesn't matter if you swear or not except in the instance that you care about it. Whether in writing or speech, in public or private. I'd like to see someone tell me that I shouldn't swear because I am Christian. I'd tell them they should defend and serve the cross with their blood, sweat and tears, then I'll call them Christian. What comes out of your mouth is what's in your heart, and cursing here and there doesn't mean you have no love in your heart, only that there is also some sin (by the way, Christians are supposed to all be self identified sinners). Anyway, that's my position and it may not be right for everyone. <br />No matter what kind of writing you go for, the key is to figure out what position is right for you; whether you do what others tell you or act independently, you are still responsible for your own choices. I hope this helps somehow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-22117954014604690632010-06-04T10:55:04.910-05:002010-06-04T10:55:04.910-05:00Jane, thanks so much for reading and commenting! ...Jane, thanks so much for reading and commenting! Thanks for sharing your technique! It helps to know that other writers understand this issue from both sides of the equation. I try to avoid it, but sometimes it just comes up. I don't write explicit sex scenes either. Writing kiss scenes makes me blush. *laughs* It's a fun exercise, though; I like to see how I can describe the kiss in a different way so that it's not graphic but the emotions still come across.Hadassah Feyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-42868966130566701182010-06-04T10:11:38.065-05:002010-06-04T10:11:38.065-05:00I'm another Christian writing for the mainstre...I'm another Christian writing for the mainstream, and if the occasional curse word comes naturally to a character while I'm writing, I let it stay. But I make a point of avoiding swearing (and sex scenes!) wherever I can.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07338002014574933192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-4558245284471593122010-05-27T18:25:39.033-05:002010-05-27T18:25:39.033-05:00Giles, if I could, I would hug you. I would at le...Giles, if I could, I would hug you. I would at least give you a high five. (I'll explain how excited those statements show that I really am in a later blog) I can't believe I forgot one of my favorite parts of all of the Star Wars novels: "Sith spawn" and "Sith spit" are the cuss words of the galaxy far far away. Your suggestion is a huge help; thanks for reminding me that it's my future world, and my future English. :) Thanks for reading, commenting, and following! And thanks for pointing out the happy profanity medium.Hadassah Feyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-30889864001742997652010-05-27T07:32:30.178-05:002010-05-27T07:32:30.178-05:00You're in quite a fortunate position: The book...You're in quite a fortunate position: The book takes place in 2172. The English language is still evolving, and by the time that year rolls around, the cuss words we have today may not even be part of the common vernacular. Joss Whedon handled this problem in the show Firefly by making the characters say "gorram" and then swearing in Mandarin...but they always said stuff like, "Oh, for the love of diarrhetic (sp?) elephants" and stuff like that. And instead of "we're effed," characters said, "we're humped".<br /><br />This is a GREAT opportunity to be creative in how your characters express profanity... and you can do it in a way that doesn't require selling out your beliefs. :)Giles Hashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10772067878017549159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-3257883689315469222010-05-26T22:59:41.356-05:002010-05-26T22:59:41.356-05:00Thanks for reading and commenting! That is the ch...Thanks for reading and commenting! That is the choice I'm facing -- character-minded writer or profanity-free Christian. I will definitely keep everyone posted as to how this decision runs its course and what I decide. Thank you for the encouragement! :)Hadassah Feyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-35171150662063171942010-05-26T01:43:35.405-05:002010-05-26T01:43:35.405-05:00I guess it depends on what is important to you. Is...I guess it depends on what is important to you. Is being a writer first and foremost. If that is the case then you must write accordingly. If being a follower of Christ, then you have to live according to a standard that He sets and not the world. <br /><br />It is not an easy issue my dear friend; we each struggle daily.<br />keep me posted how it works outmoondustwriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09848554806751678968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-15695432463261210842010-05-25T23:02:38.603-05:002010-05-25T23:02:38.603-05:00Theresa, thanks so much for reading and commenting...Theresa, thanks so much for reading and commenting! You have a great point -- I'm certainly not worried about including murder in my book. :) <br /><br />Authenticity is one of my biggest concerns with this issue. In many ways, it seems like a cop out to have built up these characters as ruthless assassins and then have them say "heck" -- which is why, so far, they haven't really said anything. I've just said that they're saying bad words, without telling the reader what those words are. But I always feel like I'm restraining the characters. It's almost a catch-22 between a writer's perspective and a Christian's.<br /><br />I wish you the best of luck with your YA writing! And I have to say, I applaud your careful consideration of your word choices in light of your audience. Here's to one day having an editor to make us think even harder about our lightning bolt word choices! :)Hadassah Feyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-69863871072100532092010-05-25T20:12:03.321-05:002010-05-25T20:12:03.321-05:00I say be true to characters and story. If you'...I say be true to characters and story. If you're writing about bad guys who kill, they'll probably curse. Not murdering is a commandment, but does that mean you can't write about it? <br /><br />Stephen King in his book On Writing states if you use a filler word when your character would swear, it's not authentic.<br /><br />I write YA, so I think long and hard before I decide to use one. And if I have an editor one day, I'll have to think long and hard again.Theresa Milsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03477761307315565259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-26149941738677271312010-05-23T20:52:08.265-05:002010-05-23T20:52:08.265-05:00Jennifer, thanks for commenting! The perception o...Jennifer, thanks for commenting! The perception of the character is a great factor to consider. It's true, in television and film, especially for kids, I think, there are certain conventions that character types meet. The bad guy has the scars, the good guy wears white, etc. And for some characters, at least in my story, they're just the type of character that would swear, and that's how I want them to be perceived by the readers. I want my characters to be realistic, and to seem truly human.<br /><br />I can definitely appreciate that you don't rely on vulgarity for your comedy. I think there are always other ways to express things without crossing the line into poor taste. It's much more impressive to me when people can be funny or express themselves in any way without resorting to curse words.Hadassah Feyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-34100302878368278722010-05-23T20:41:29.550-05:002010-05-23T20:41:29.550-05:00For me it depends on how I want the reader to perc...For me it depends on how I want the reader to percieve a particular character. Either their personality or their situation at the moment. Not unlike how in Spanish telenovelas the bad guys smoke, and it seems to me in some Bond 007 movies the good guys drive BMWs and the evil ones drive the Mercedes. Of course those are extremes and a bit cartoonish.<br /><br />However, when I've performed as a stand-up comic, I write my material from the perspective that comedy for adults does not have to have curse words or vulgarity of any sort, and to do so indicates a lack of creativity, or just plain laziness.<br />Jennifer Perry (Bark Of Love blogspot)Jennifer Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204531473913986015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-50043388562803725622010-05-23T16:02:58.506-05:002010-05-23T16:02:58.506-05:00Glynn, thanks for your comment! It's really h...Glynn, thanks for your comment! It's really helpful for me to hear from somebody who writes for both mainstream and Christian audiences. You're right -- we are supposed to be in the world and not of it, great point. It's funny, after posting this earlier, I had to explain to a class of five year olds at church why it's not okay to flip the bird. It made me think a little more about why I thought my characters "needed" to curse. From the mouths of babes, I guess. :)<br /><br />Kathryn, thanks so much for commenting! It's good to hear from someone who does sprinkle these words in. It does depend on the character, like you pointed out. My protagonist is like yours, she's not the one most likely to curse, and it's only something that's really come up in the two instances I described in the post. It's true, even preachers drop a curse word every now and again! :) We are all human after all. I guess for me, the issue is deciding not how human my characters are, but how much of their humanity and failings I'm willing to show explicity.Hadassah Feyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05320252461574791534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-57470233559330825602010-05-23T09:08:22.556-05:002010-05-23T09:08:22.556-05:00My novels aren't filled with curse words and I...My novels aren't filled with curse words and I rarely use them, but they are here and there in some of my work. My main character doesn't curse. It's just not her character, but sometimes her brothers do, and sometimes her momma does (although her stepmother never does)... <br /><br />I believe in doing what we can live with in our own heart and gut. I believe in being simply human! But, I am no longer a church-going person, so maybe I'm not an expert on this! However, I used to be a church-goign person and I can tell you that people sometimes curse, even preachers *laugh*Kathryn Magendiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12863595228298349863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1450311589380715600.post-65917963565314665472010-05-23T09:01:43.089-05:002010-05-23T09:01:43.089-05:00As a Christian who writes for both Christian and m...As a Christian who writes for both Christian and mainstream, I avoid it. It can be implied without being explicit. I figure part of what I'm supposed to do is be different. Cursing and vulgarity are common today -- but even in your typical workplace, people still find it offensive.Glynnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10802111972232088511noreply@blogger.com